betfair and no zero

[colsy678]

hello,

I've been looking at a few online casinos lately and plan on taking them up on their lovely offers, such as a free £500 and win as much as you can in 60 minutes! I know there are limits, things such as you must place a minimum number of bets, you can only win up to a maximum of £200 for example, you must make a deposit to your real account of at least a certain amount, etc, etc. However, if you do not win and end up in profit (eg finish on £550 to make a profit of £50), then you do not have to deposit any money to your real account and so you are not having to risk your own real money.

I know there is no system that can guarantee you profit when playing roulette and to always beat the casino. However do some systems at roulette perhaps mean you win more often than you lose? eg you usually win more regulalry?

I have often heard people talking about the house edge. Does this refer to the zero on a roulette wheel? As I have said I have visited a few websites and are checking them out. One site I noticed was Betfair. It is qute a large and well known gambling site in the UK. Well it has a roulette game with a house edge of zero, it has no 0's on the roulette wheel! Is this the way forward in roulette do you think? should other casinos follow suit?

With this in mind, does anyone out there have any good strategies for playing roulette if there is no zero on the wheel which would make you more likely to win than lose?

colin

[tfeilding]

Firstly the 'play for a free hour and keep the winnings' isnt very straightforward as the free-period merely establishes the amount you stand to win as a sign-up bonus. This then needs to be unlocked in the usual way (such as being given $5 for every $500 you cycle through the site).

Whilst looking at the house edge is a good way to minimise your risk of busting out before you release the bonus, you should know that the casino will weight games differently. So a game with less risk will require more 'cycle throughs'.

The casino bonuses are worth unlocking and some people make money this way, but don't be completely fooled by the site's marketing.

[xworkerbee]

The house edge refers to the zero and double zero on the roulette wheel. European roulette using the single zero has the least house edge when compared with American roulette with it's double zero. In both cases it keeps red and black color bets from being 50-50.

[colsy678]

Thanks for the comments. I know that there is no way of being guaranteed of winning at roulette all the time, but I think it is worth taking a gamble on the casinos which offer you free money and no deposit required. That way if you lose you then do not have to deposit your own money. The trick is then trying to get as much of your winnings from your casino account into your bank account, meeting the minimum wagers required in order to do so and all the other criteria.

I have also been reading a lot about martingale or whatever it is called on this forum. Obviously it doesn't really work in the long run. You make lots of small gains but then lose one big bet. I've played a lot of free play roulette on the internet and no matter how impossible you think things are, for example you think 15 even numbers in a row have come up, you must get an odd one soon, the unexpected happens and an even comes up.

With on-line roulette I think the casinos know that lots of people like to try doubling up and that is why so often you see 6 blacks in a row come up, then 8 high numbers in a row come up, and so on. I would have thought that a better strategy if you were doubling up all the time would be just to choose either red/black, high/low, or odd/even at random and hope that you take no more than 6 or 7 losses in a row or something and know when to quit. But still the gains are so small when compared to the possible big losses that it does not seem to be worth while to me in the long run.

If I was ever to use this 'martingale' strategy or whatever you call it, I wouldn't follow the "oh six reds in a row have come up, lets start betting on black". Long streams of the same colour come out too often, more than you would think possible. Again this is because I think the casinos out there know that people like to think "oh look, three reds have come out, lets start betting on black". If I was doing it I would do it completely at random. I mean how often does:

red, black, red, black, red, black, red, black, red, black, red, black, red, black

come out? Not as often I don't think as getting 6 or 7 reds in a row. So I would follow the strategy of if red comes out then bet red, if black comes out bet black, and so on. But still this run of bets mentioned above would come out eventually at sometime and you would take a big loss, so all your smaller gains would be nullified.

In the long run I don't think this so called system or any system for that matter will work. The advantage is too much in the casinos favour. Even if you go on a long winning streak and make small profits of £1 or £2 each time, even over a hundred wins in a row, eventually you will hit the one big loss and lose over £100 or £200 in the one go.

I've thought about getting into poker. I know all the rules and know that a lot of it is to do with knowing when and when not to bet. Also I like the film Rounders lol Anyway I better not start talking about poker, wrong part of the forum I think. Also the more I think about it there is no point getting into poker, I would end up losing money. No matter how good you think you are there are always atleast a million more poker players out there who are better than you and will take you to the cleaners. I think I will just stick to gambling with small amounts of money for fun, no point in trying to make any serious money out of it. I'm happy gambling my £20 a week and sticking to it lol It's kind of like playing the lottery lol First couple of years I won £10 about 5 times in total. I haven't won a penny in the last ten years or so, yet still I keep putting on the same two lines every week lol

Anyway I have babbled on long enough. It is getting late and I do believe that I am starting to mumble. The main point I was trying to make through all of that rambling in the post is that don't bother with the martingale system, or any other system for that matter, you will lose in the long run. Agree?

bye

[xworkerbee]

The Martingale system on it's face seems like a logical way to play roulette and win. I always thought, really how many times could the same color hit in a row? I found out the hard way in a real casino that the color black came up 12 times in a row. By that time I was up against the table maximum and in the end lost my bankroll. I would agree that Martingale or any form of doubling up is a recipe for bankruptcy. Martingale will work only if there is no table limit and obviously no limit to your available funds to cover the doubling.

I read an interesting article about the myths of roulette. No matter what one thinks, each spin of the wheel is a new spin and what has happened up to the point does not affect the results of the next spin. I think it is human nature to look at the past performance of a roulette wheel and deduct from that information that certain numbers that haven't hit are due or more likely to hit. This just isn't so. Each spin is random and independent from the last. The object of the game is to place bets that offer the best potential return without over betting.

[KasinoKing]

I have also been reading a lot about martingale or whatever it is called on this forum. Obviously it doesn't really work in the long run. You make lots of small gains but then lose one big bet. I've played a lot of free play roulette on the internet and no matter how impossible you think things are, for example you think 15 even numbers in a row have come up, you must get an odd one soon, the unexpected happens and an even comes up.

I'm very glad you've realised that - that will save you a lot of money!

With on-line roulette I think the casinos know that lots of people like to try doubling up and that is why so often you see 6 blacks in a row come up, then 8 high numbers in a row come up, and so on. I would have thought that a better strategy if you were doubling up all the time would be just to choose either red/black, high/low, or odd/even at random and hope that you take no more than 6 or 7 losses in a row or something and know when to quit. But still the gains are so small when compared to the possible big losses that it does not seem to be worth while to me in the long run.

Spot on! You might just as well chose what to bet on at random - you have the exact same chance of winning as if you were following a 'pattern'.

If I was ever to use this 'martingale' strategy or whatever you call it, I wouldn't follow the "oh six reds in a row have come up, lets start betting on black". Long streams of the same colour come out too often, more than you would think possible. Again this is because I think the casinos out there know that people like to think "oh look, three reds have come out, lets start betting on black".

What you're implying there is that the casinos 'rig' the games - that they are not random.
If they are rigged, you are never going to win no matter what you do.

I've thought about getting into poker. I know all the rules and know that a lot of it is to do with knowing when and when not to bet. Also I like the film Rounders lol Anyway I better not start talking about poker, wrong part of the forum I think. Also the more I think about it there is no point getting into poker, I would end up losing money. No matter how good you think you are there are always at least a million more poker players out there who are better than you and will take you to the cleaners.

Spot on again! I gave up playing poker regularly about 5 years ago - and I'm much richer now!

Anyway I have babbled on long enough. It is getting late and I do believe that I am starting to mumble. The main point I was trying to make through all of that rambling in the post is that don't bother with the martingale system, or any other system for that matter, you will lose in the long run. Agree?

bye

Agree about the martingale, not about the other 'systems' or losing in the long run.
(I've been winning for 7-years).
There are ways to significantly increase your chances of profiting by using bonuses, but I'm not getting into detail here.
Those "free-play" offers you mentioned are very good - no risk unless you win & convert your winnings into bonus chips, when you have to make a small deposit & complete WR. Roulette is not the way to do this though IMO, as it often only counts at a tiny % in the wagering.
You can also get no deposit, risk free bonuses from Rival casinos - but be aware that most are for slots play only.

Betfair's 'Zero Lounge' is just a marketing ploy IMO. The roulette with no zero's is pretty crap as it has high minimum & low maximum bet limits. Being zero edge does not mean the players will win. In fact, I bet most still lose because overall the casino with 'an infinite bankroll' will always beat the player with a limited bankroll.

KK

[colsy678]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KasinoKing
"What you're implying there is that the casinos 'rig' the games - that they are not random.
If they are rigged, you are never going to win no matter what you do."

I don't think that casinos 'rig' the games, but I don't think that they are truly random. I think that in real casinos it is random, but online casinos cannot be because it is programmers who write the programmes so I am not entirely convinced that they are 100% random. They have to choose the numbers from somewhere.

[Xch4ng3]

You are correct. I've recently tried this "If you lose, double your next bet" system. It's not really that good unless you have quite a lot of money to make sure your have enough to double your bet.

I'd say that if your going to attempt this, choose a casino that offers you at least 100% of your first bet and put down at least £500. This means that you already have £500 to risk.

Another good option is to choose a casino that offers you a free bonus even with no deposit. A good choice is JoyLand casino - they offer £10 free anyway.

Also there seems to be certain times when winnings increase/de-crease. At one point I managed to raise £30 into £70 - within the next 20 mins I dropped down to £10. This has happened on more than one occasion.

[jarvison]

The Martingale system on it's face seems like a logical way to play roulette and win. I always thought, really how many times could the same color hit in a row? I found out the hard way in a real casino that the color black came up 12 times in a row. By that time I was up against the table maximum and in the end lost my bankroll. I would agree that Martingale or any form of doubling up is a recipe for bankruptcy. Martingale will work only if there is no table limit and obviously no limit to your available funds to cover the doubling.

I read an interesting article about the myths of roulette. No matter what one thinks, each spin of the wheel is a new spin and what has happened up to the point does not affect the results of the next spin. I think it is human nature to look at the past performance of a roulette wheel and deduct from that information that certain numbers that haven't hit are due or more likely to hit. This just isn't so. Each spin is random and independent from the last. The object of the game is to place bets that offer the best potential return without over betting.

Thank you a lot for your post. Could you please give me a link on this article?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KasinoKing
"What you're implying there is that the casinos 'rig' the games - that they are not random.
If they are rigged, you are never going to win no matter what you do."

I don't think that casinos 'rig' the games, but I don't think that they are truly random. I think that in real casinos it is random, but online casinos cannot be because it is programmers who write the programmes so I am not entirely convinced that they are 100% random. They have to choose the numbers from somewhere.

Really, it would be very helpful to have some opportunity to test the randomness of the game’s results at online casino.



No Zero Roulette is a good idea.
The odds of winning and losing are equal to 50%.
But this Roulette on Betfair has a one shortcoming, it is a small range of bets.
If the range of bets would be higher, it would be profitable for the players.

[KasinoKing]

No Zero Roulettes are good yes but really how many times do you REALLY hit 0.....not that many soo...does it really matter.....randomness of online casinos=you win at first then you start losing so you bet more and more to get it back which = the house always wins.....

As pointed out in the post above yours, the problem with Betfair's no-zero roulette is the table limit - 50 quid I think...
So you are better off with normal single-zero roulette if you want to play a progressive betting system.

But you are right, the house always wins with roulette; whether the house edge is 2.7027% or 0% - it's still not in the players favour, obviously!
What intrigues me is whether some roulette players can win consistently while the vast majority lose? I know I can do it on slots (which have an even higher house edge), so theoretically it might be possible on roulette too, though the relatively low variance is probably what prevents this...

KK