New blind structure

[welshdemon]

What do people think of the new blind system?

The general concensus (everyone Ive spoke to, ok only a handful so far, maybe 10 players, but thats 100% of people who think the same thing) on the new blind structure is that theyre going up too fast. It even gets to 500/1000 quicker than it did before, everybody thinks it should get to higher levels such as that a lot later, allowing for more play before the "all-ins" when it gets to 1000 on the blinds and a lot of people are now short stacked against the blinds. Maybe 20 mins-25 min blind levels would be better with the new 300/600 level in place, but also everybody thinks a 400/800 level would also be better. Obviously on a Sunday or a venue which has 2 games per night it would be different. This is based on the venues I run which have a game at 7.30 til 11pm-ish.


I think something like this might work better. The idea being the blinds get to the large levels later in the night, allowing for more play before this all-in stage.

Start (25 mins per level)
7.30 25/50
7.55 50/100 (ditch the 75/100 level and add 400/800 instead perhaps)
8.20 100/200
8.45 150/300 (then to 20 mins per level maybe)
9.05 200/400
9.25 300/600
9.45 400/800 (most people ive spoke to think that there should be a 400/800 level here. Also 15 mins per level from here)
10.00 500/1000 (This level used to be reached at around 9.35pm, so we have just gained 25 mins more "play" before the all ins start happening every hand.)
10.15 1000/2000
10.30 2000/3000 (10 mins per level from here)
10.40 3000/6000
10.50 5000/10000
11.00 10000/20000 (Game is usually done by now!)
End by 11.10-11.15ish at the latest.

I dont think the 75.150 level is required even though it gives an extra level of play. Its always been the jump from 200/400 to 500/1000 which everybody hates as it kills most people stack size in comparision to the blinds. The new blinds go up so quick it means even less play before the all-ins every so it has had the opposite effect than it intended.

Thats my feedback from the games Ive ran this week in different venues, and all are in agreement.

Hope this helps and hope others concur.

Well, a thought just arose. The venues I run average 20 players. This might be a whole different story at a venue with 40 players. Lets say 6 players left at 10.30. 20 player venue = 80000 chips at the start, divided by 6 = 13333 average chip stack. 40 player venue = 160000 chips at start, divided by 6 = 26666 average stack size. So as you can see, in a quieter venue this means players are more short stacked. So I guess my feedback will be different to feedback from a venue which hosts 40 players. Hmm....

[RevStu]

I was confused, because it wasn't the same as the one we'd been trialling at Filo's for most of the previous month. There we went 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400, 300/600, 400/800, 600/1200, 800/1600, and then 1000/2000 and on in increments of 1000. That seemed to work really well, but the structure we played on Thursday at the Assembly (with what must have been close to 40 players) was hardly any different from the old one, in that it still got to 500/1000 very quickly (helped by the 15-minute intervals) and then leapt up from there exactly the way it did before, until we were all playing bingo poker as usual. The trial structure allowed for a lot more skill IMO. If anything, Thursday's was worse than the old one.

Personally I think the really big blinds should be kept until late in the game - people will naturally bet bigger as the field shrinks anyway (since everyone has bigger stacks and there's no point taking 200 chips off someone who's got 11,000), and if you're an hour from closing time with 20 players still left it's easy enough for the pit boss to say "Okay, five-minute blinds from now on" or whatever it takes to get the game finished. The trial structure also kept the number of chip-ups to a minimum, which is less work for the organisers, less interruption to the game, and less of a signal to play crapshoot.

[RayWSM]

WHAT is this NEW blind structure, has the venues i play at have not changed and do not appear to know any think about them ?

[LPL_Mike]

Ok Guys lets put this up for discussion:

The idea is to try and find a balance between the blind levels and the increases:
Here is the new structure:

25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200 -1 Hour
150-300
200-400
300-600
500-1000-2 Hour
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
3000-6000-3 Hour
4000-8000
5000-10000

What i am trying to achieve is give players more of a chance to play later on in the game instead of the all-feast that we now have.
Here is another structure i would consider:

25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200-1 Hour

150-300
200-400
300-600
400-800-2 Hour

600-1200
800-1600
1200-2400
1500-3000 3-hour

3000-6000
5000-10000

That allows for 3 1/2 hours of play and as you can see gives you a better chance of playing in the latter stages of the game.
I really do want to keep the new fifteen minute levels, so please don't offer suggestions with varying levels of blind times

[LPL_Mike]

WHAT is this NEW blind structure, has the venues i play at have not changed and do not appear to know any think about them ?

I am dropping in the new levels to Frames tonight Ray

[RevStu]

Ok Guys lets put this up for discussion:

The idea is to try and find a balance between the blind levels and the increases:
Here is the new structure:

25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200 -1 Hour
150-300
200-400
300-600
500-1000-2 Hour
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
3000-6000-3 Hour
4000-8000
5000-10000

What i am trying to achieve is give players more of a chance to play later on in the game instead of the all-feast that we now have.

That sounds better, though it still gets a bit crazy after first chip-up. Having a big blind of your entire starting stack after two-and-a-half hours seems a little fierce, so why not shove a 400/800 level in there to slow it down just a bit? (And/or put another 1000 in the starting stack. 5000 is a neater number than 4000 anyway...)

To be honest, I didn't think the Filo's levels (with the slower rise from 1000 to 2000 at the crucial mid-game stage) needed changing, but maybe there was different feedback. 15-minute blinds are cool, it's the amount they go up rather than the speed that's the problem.

[Cantona]

In Manchester league, we already play something like this:

25-50
50-100
75-150 - ( this increment doesnt exist )
100-200 -1 Hour
150-300 - ( this increment doesnt always exist )
200-400
300-600
500-1000-2 Hour ( This is the problem - the jump from 600 to 1000 to great )
1000-2000
1500-3000
2000-4000
3000-6000-3 Hour
4000-8000
5000-10000


The second proposal looks better to me. the introduction of 2 extra smaller level blinds seems pointless, its the big shift from 600 to 1000 that causes the disruption to game flow.

All that said, there seems to be no changes made to our venues. Is this happening up here ?


Whatever the answer to the blinds, I would think that the introduction of an ante at the right point is the answer to making the blind system suit at venues with larger fields. This ensures that all venues use the same blinds, and at the pit boss discretion an ante is introduced to speed the game up without putting lots of pressure on the short stacks and causing a lottery in 3 rounds. I cant cant foresee a single blind system that will suit a field of 12 and a filed of 45. An alternative to the ante, is to adjust starting stacks, hoever this would be a headache for pit boss as stacks can only be set at 19:30 sharp, (see lateness thread!!).

So for me its the second proposed system with an ante introduced at pit boss discretion to venues with 25+, (say ?). I am sure it will take a few weeks to get the ante timing correct, but at least it is a variable influence and therefore helps to correct the timing of the game, on a venue by venue basis.

[LPL_Mike]

The second proposal looks better to me. the introduction of 2 extra smaller level blinds seems pointless, its the big shift from 600 to 1000 that causes the disruption to game flow.

All that said, there seems to be no changes made to our venues. Is this happening up here ?

We will trial it in the Bristol South West for a Month before introducing it to Manchester, just to iron out any glitches and problems

I think the introduction of antes will just confuse the situation and its not something i am looking to introduce.

[drwinston]

the problem I can see with some of the suggestions is getting the game finished within 3 hours. It might be ok for a venue that only has 1 game a night with a small amount of people attending but what about somewhere that has 2 games with 30+ people attending both? I'm all for more play but sometimes you've got to finish the game as the pub won't stay open all night.

[DonkBox]

We played a new and improved version of the new blind structure yesterday at Filos which had two games in the session one at 3pm and one at 7pm with roughly 25 runners in each. the games finished on time and i think the structure works very well.

I'll let Mike post it in its entirety if he wishes to, as i don't have it in front of me. But, essentially the opening three levels (25-50, 50-100, 75-150) are 20 minutes long. Then the bulk of the levels after are 15 mins long. The last 3-4 levels (3000-6000+) are only 10 minutes - the thinking being, that at this stage you are at most 5 handed and more likely 2-4 handed and therefore seeing more hands per hour anyway.